Response to a Friend: Part 2

This is a follow up reply to a friends response to my last post on the term "born-again". The entirety of the postings can be found at the link posted. He initiated, I responded, he cross-examined, and this is my reply and I don't know the humorous courtroom setting term....re-direct maybe? anyway, here it is: Let me know what you think!:


Athosxc said...
Points well stated. I would add one thing however to my previous post since it was elaborated on in reply.

In regards to truth and the nature of it: The bible is largely objective truth. Our experiences with it are subjective, but our beliefs and way of thinking must be brought in line with the objective standards of God's Word.A very simplified example would be John 14:6. When Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes unto the father but through me", that is an objective truth. It doesn't matter my examples of how I feel "closer to god" when I'm burning incense at the Buddhist temple, or praying towards Mecca 5 times daily as a Muslim, or anything else. If I don't come to God through Christ, I'm never going to get to God. My subjective experiences don't change the objective nature of the truth of God's word.

I will agree with you that mental assent to intellectual points and arguments does not come close to being a proper definition of faith. However, without that same mental assent to those intellectual points and arguments, our subjective experiences are groundless and hollow, and ultimately lead not to salvation, but to death. I I claim to follow Christ, but don't believe the truth of scripture, then my claim is false. Why? Because the Bible is God's Word. You can't claim to follow someone, yet deny what they say and deny what they hold dear. It is a mental and logical inconsistency to try and is ultimately false.

I wish I could remember the exact phrase, because it stated both our points excellently, but it was close to this:"Truth without love is legalism, and love with truth is hypocrisy"...it's close to that. Anyway, the point is that if all we have is a mental understanding, we are, as Jesus said, no better than the demons who have a much better mental understanding of things than we do....they've seen God, they've fought him, they've lost, they're still fighting....and still losing.


But if we don't subvert our own will enough to accept the objective truth of God's Word, regardless of our own subjective experience, then our subjective experience will lead us falsely....or as the Scriptures say, "There is a way which seems right to a man (insert subjectivity), but in the end it leads to death (Lack of objective truth guiding their subjective experience)"....(Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25)


SK would be right in his attacks on spiritual apathy, and empty mental assention to truths that were not subsequently lived out...but to jump to the complete other end of the spectrum is to commit the same fallacy, only from the other side of the argument.


My reason for reading in what I did, is that over 80% of Americans now claim to be "Christian" but their lives clearly dictate otherwise. Their polled answers were because they went to church, were good people, etc, they were Christians. This was from a survey done in late summer 2006.


While I mentally understand your statement that "all believers are Christians, but not all Christians are believers", I must say that this is an impossible statement. A logical fallacy. To be a "Christian" is to be a Christ-follower, little Christ, etc., and would be a term only applied to true believers. Throughout scripture, those who claimed the title falsely were exposed, so that when they used the term "Christian" about themselves, it was not believed. They were not to be included in the church unless willing to be reconciled to God first, and offended parties second.


So to say "I am a Christian, but I don't believe in God, or I don't believe the Bible, or any other list of things" is a contradiction of terms. That's what being a Christian means, that's what it's always meant, and always will mean. Those who claim the title, but not the King, are as Christ said "liars, and the truth is not in them".....


comments?

Athosxc